who is Jesus

Le
al7yatkalima4
Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
out of context:

1. God is All Knowing..but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.

2. God is All Powerful..but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
seeth the Father do" St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God..but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
(Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. God is an invisible spirit..but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
is God" Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.


What is the word of God about Jesus:

A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an
19:34,35).

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and
it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an
19:88-93).

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the
heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)

B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,
the Messenger of God'yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not
slay him of certainty no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is
Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will
assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day
he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)


http://www.islamtoday.net/english/
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Peter Dettmann
Le #87668
On 23 Apr 2006 15:15:25 -0700, wrote:

Well apart from the inconsiderate spam aspect of this multi cross
posted article into incorrect groups for this material, you should
seriously consider:

1. Jesus was described in the Bible as coming to earth in the form of
a man. The extent of his humanship is largely covered by your quotes.
(See John chapter 1)

2. Jesus was revered by Mahommad. Was Mahommad therefore in error,
and this Jesus was in fact a charlatan?

Peter Dettmann


Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine
within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult
your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn
out of context:

1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.

2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power
he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily,
verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he
seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine
own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath
sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also
the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own
admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not
all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon
nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom
he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my
Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He
is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God
why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then
couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?"
Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer
(Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of
Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time
nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God
is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in
truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any
time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that
Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of
Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than
I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus
responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that
is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself
and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither
came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear
evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with
God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in
St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into
the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he
would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he
would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of
another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and
therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is
false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented
in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.


What is the word of God about Jesus:

A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are
doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him!
When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an
19:34,35).

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have
indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it
and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down
crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and
it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the
heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an
19:88-93).

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say
not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only
the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a
spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the
heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)

B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,
the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified
him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at
variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no
knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not
slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is
Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will
assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day
he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)


http://www.islamtoday.net/english/


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