[314]

benoit

26/10/2018 à 15:04

Alf92 wrote:

Benoit :
Alf92 wrote:
Benoit :

Mes cours d'anatomie avaient lieu dans une salle de dissection avec
quelques dizaines de tables de dissection et des macchabées plus ou
moins ouverts par les étudiants de deuxième année. Ça a fait des dégâts
auprès de ceux qui ne s'y attendaient pas malgré l'odeur de formol à
l'étage.

cette salle immense et glaciale avec tous ces cadavres à moitié ouvert
à 30cm des étudiants était vraiment flipante

P'tit bras l'Alf.

toi aussi tu as fait une année de PCEM1 rue des Saint-Pères ??? ;-)

Oui, mais deux fois.

j'ai été moins con que toi alors :-))

T'as rattrapé ton retard de l'époque, et l'avance que tu as prise n'as
pas duré longtemps.
Et Hop !

Ou tout du moins 1 fois et demi, j'ai arrêté à la
fin du premier semestre parce que je ne me voyais pas faire autant
d'années d'étude pour devenir micro-chirurgien.

je n'ai fait q'une année, enfin 6 mois.
les 6 mois restant je suis parti en WW Combi en Europe faire de la
planche à voile. la vraie vie quoi.

Moi la vraie vie à Paris : se balader, jouer au flipper et vendre les
parties claquées pour acheter à manger, visiter des musées, aller dans
dans les cinés du quatier latin (entre autre) pour voir des vieux films,
regarder la rue, la vie.
J'ai plus appris sur la vie, l'économie, l'art... que sur les bancs.
--
Vie : n.f. maladie mortelle sexuellement transmissible
Benoit chez lui à leraillez.com

benoit

26/10/2018 à 15:04

jdd wrote:

il faudrait dire que si on devait choir d'emporter sur une ile déserte
un tableau ou un chat... en tout cas là ou la valeur marchande n'existe pas

C'est sûr qu'un chat peut ramener des repas, voire en être un s'il ne
sait pas chasser.
--
Vie : n.f. maladie mortelle sexuellement transmissible
Benoit chez lui à leraillez.com

GhostRaider

26/10/2018 à 17:16

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:15, jdd a écrit :

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:02, GhostRaider a écrit :
Les autres présents disent bien autre chose.

où?

Attention : le texte en français que tu cites figure dans un blog
anonyme de 2017 :
La source citée : amhed amri (amriahmed.blogspot.com) est un autre blog,
tunisien.
L'article cité, qui est très romancé et qui s'étend abonfdamment sur les
opinions du rédacteur et beaucoup moins sur les faits, date de 2010 :
http://amriahmed.blogspot.com/2010/08/kevin-carter-voyage-au-bout-de-lenfer8.html
Sa source serait un article en français du Huffington-post et là, on
perd sa trace.
Quand on connait le Huffington-post on peut lever les sourcils et aller
vérifier.
La première chose à faire est de consulter Wikipedia, qui cite avec
précisions ses propres sources imprimées (et non web) qu'on peut aller
consulter.
On voit nettement l'évolution du discours au fil du temps qui confirme
les sentiments d'horreur des lecteurs au prix d'un éloignement
progressif de la réalité.
The vulture and the little girl :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_vulture_and_the_little_girl
"The next day their light aircraft touched down in the tiny hamlet of
Ayod with the cargo aircraft landing shortly afterwards. Marinovich
wrote that the villagers were already waiting next to the runway to get
the food as quickly as possible: "Mothers who had joined the throng
waiting for food left their children on the sandy ground nearby."[8]
Silva and Carter separated to take pictures of both children and adults,
both the living and dead, all victims of the catastrophic famine that
had arisen through the war. Carter went several times to Silva to tell
him about the shocking situation he had just photographed. Witnessing
the famine affected him emotionally. Silva was searching for rebel
soldiers who could take him to someone in authority and when he found
some soldiers Carter joined him. The soldiers did not speak English, but
one was interested in Carter's watch. Carter gave him his cheap
wristwatch as a gift.[9] The soldiers became their bodyguards and
followed them for their protection.[10][11]
To stay a week with the rebels they needed the permission of a rebel
commander. Their plane was due to depart in an hour and without the
permission to stay they would be forced to fly out. Again they separated
and Silva went to the clinic complex to ask for the rebel commander and
he was told the commander was in Kongor, South Sudan. This was for Silva
good news as, "their little UN plane was heading there next". He left
the clinic and went back to the runway, taking on his way pictures of
children and people. He came across a child lying on his face in the hot
sun – he took a picture.[12]
Carter saw Silva on the runway and told him, "You won't believe what
I've just shot! … I was shooting this kid on her knees, and then changed
my angle, and suddenly there was this vulture right behind her! … And I
just kept shooting – shot lots of film![12] Silva asked him where he
shot the picture and was looking around to take a photo as well. Carter
pointed to a place 50 m (160 ft) away. Then Carter told him that he had
chased the vulture away. He told Silva he was shocked by the situation
he had just photographed, saying, "I see all this, and all I can think
of is Megan", his young daughter. A few minutes later they left Ayod for
Kongor.[13]
In 2011, the child's father revealed the child was actually a boy, Kong
Nyong, and had been taken care of by the UN food aid station. Nyong had
died four years prior, c. 2007, of "fevers", according to his family.[14]
Plus loin :
Publication and public reaction
In March 1993, The New York Times was seeking an image to illustrate a
story by Donatella Lorch about the Sudan. Nancy Buirski, the newspaper's
picture editor on the foreign desk, called Marinovich, who told her
about "an image of a vulture stalking a starving child who had collapsed
in the sand." Carter's photo was published in the March 26, 1993
edition.[15] The caption read: "A little girl, weakened from hunger,
collapsed recently along the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. Nearby,
a vulture waited.".[2]
This first publication in The New York Times "caused a sensation",
Marinovich wrote, adding, "It was being used in posters for raising
funds for aid organization. Papers and magazines around the world had
published it, and the immediate public reaction was to send money to any
humanitarian organization that had an operation in Sudan."[16]
Special editorial
Due to the public reaction and questions about the girl's condition, The
New York Times published a special editorial in its 30 March 1993
edition, in which the editor said, in part, "A picture last Friday with
an article about the Sudan showed a little Sudanese girl who had
collapsed from hunger on the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. A
vulture lurked behind her. Many readers have asked about the fate of the
girl. The photographer reports that he did not know what happened to the
girl . It is not known whether she reached the center."[17]
Plus loin :
Kevin Carter's suicide
Main article: Kevin Carter § Death
Four months after being awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Feature
Photography, Carter died of suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning on July
27, 1994, at age 33.[19][20] Desmond Tutu, Archbishop Emeritus of Cape
Town, South Africa, wrote of Carter, "And we know a little about the
cost of being traumatized that drove some to suicide, that, yes, these
people were human beings operating under the most demanding of
conditions."[21]
Plus loin dans l'article sur Kevin Carter :
Death
On 27 July 1994, Carter drove to Parkmore near the Field and Study
Centre, an area where he used to play as a child, and committed suicide
by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and
running the other end to the driver's side window. He died of carbon
monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note
read:[16]
I'm really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist. ...depressed ... without phone ... money
for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!!
... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger &
pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often
police, of killer executioners ... I have gone to join Ken if I am that
lucky.
Un autre article :
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/
The vulture and the little girl, 1993. Original title: Struggling Girl.
The vulture is waiting for the girl to die and to eat her. The
photograph was taken by South African photojournalist, Kevin Carter,
while on assignment to Sudan. He took his own life a couple of month
later due to depression.
In March 1993 Kevin Carter made a trip to Sudan. Near the village of
Ayod, Carter found a girl who had stopped to rest while struggling to a
United Nations feeding centre, whereupon a vulture had landed nearby.
Careful not to disturb the bird, he waited for twenty minutes until the
vulture was close enough, positioned himself for the best possible image
and only then chased the vulture away. At this point Carter was probably
not yet aware that he had shot one of the most controversial photographs
in the history of photojournalism.
“The parents of the children were busy taking food from the plane, so
they had left their children only briefly while they collected the food.
This was the situation for the girl in the photo taken by Carter. A
vulture landed behind the girl. To get the two in focus, Carter
approached the scene very slowly so as not to scare the vulture away and
took a photo from approximately 10 meters. He took a few more photos
before chasing the bird away”.
The photograph was sold to The New York Times where it appeared for the
first time on March 26, 1993. Practically overnight hundreds of people
contacted the newspaper to ask whether the child had survived, leading
the newspaper to run a special editor’s note saying the girl had enough
strength to walk away from the vulture, but that her ultimate fate was
unknown. Because of this, Carter was bombarded with questions about why
he did not help the girl, and only used her to take a photograph.
As with many dramatic photographs, Carter came under criticism for this
shot. The St. Petersburg Times in Florida wrote: “The man adjusting his
lens to take just the right frame of her suffering, might just as well
be a predator, another vulture on the scene”. The attitude that public
opinion condemned was not only that of taking the picture instead of
chasing the vulture immediately away, but also the fact that he did not
help the girl afterwards –as Carter explained later- leaving her in such
a weak condition to continue the march by her self towards the feeding
center.
However, Carter was working in a time when photojournalists were told
not to touch famine victims for fear of spreading disease. Carter
estimated that there were twenty people per hour dying at the food
center. The child was not unique. Regardless, Carter often expressed
regret that he had not done anything to help the girl, even though there
was not much that he could have done.
In 1994, Kevin Carter won the Pulitzer prize for the disturbing
photograph of a Sudanese child being stalked by a vulture. That same
year, Kevin Carter committed suicide.
Carter is the tragic example of the toll photographing such suffering
can take on a person. Along with his famous photograph, Carter had
captured such things as a public necklacing execution in 1980s South
Africa, along with the violence of the time, including shootouts and
other executions. Carter spoke of his thoughts when he took these
photographs: “I had to think visually. I am zooming in on a tight shot
of the dead guy and a splash of red. Going into his khaki uniform in a
pool of blood in the sand. The dead man’s face is slightly gray. You are
making a visual here. But inside something is screaming: ‘My God!’. But
it is time to work. Deal with the rest later. If you can’t do it, get
out of the game”.
The suicide: On 27 July 1994 Carter drove his way to Parkmore near the
Field and Study Center, an area where he used to play as a child, and
committed suicide by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s
exhaust pipe and running the other end to the driver’s side window. He
died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Carter’s suicide
note read:
“I’m really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist… I am depressed… without phone… money for
rent … money for child support… money for debts… money!!!… I am haunted
by the vivid memories of killings and corpses and anger and pain… of
starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of
killer executioners… I have gone to join Ken [recently deceased
colleague Ken Oosterbroek] if I am that lucky”.
Un autre lien qui romance de plus en plus en ajoutant des détails nouveaux :
http://100photos.time.com/photos/kevin-carter-starving-child-vulture
Kevin Carter knew the stench of death. As a member of the Bang-Bang
Club, a quartet of brave photographers who chronicled apartheid-era
South Africa, he had seen more than his share of heartbreak. In 1993 he
flew to Sudan to photograph the famine racking that land. Exhausted
after a day of taking pictures in the village of Ayod, he headed out
into the open bush. There he heard whimpering and came across an
emaciated toddler who had collapsed on the way to a feeding center. As
he took the child’s picture, a plump vulture landed nearby. Carter had
reportedly been advised not to touch the victims because of disease, so
instead of helping, he spent 20 minutes waiting in the hope that the
stalking bird would open its wings. It did not. Carter scared the
creature away and watched as the child continued toward the center. He
then lit a cigarette, talked to God and wept. The New York Times ran the
photo, and readers were eager to find out what happened to the child—and
to criticize Carter for not coming to his subject’s aid. His image
quickly became a wrenching case study in the debate over when
photographers should intervene. Subsequent research seemed to reveal
that the child did survive yet died 14 years later from malarial fever.
Carter won a Pulitzer for his image, but the darkness of that bright day
never lifted from him. In July 1994 he took his own life, writing, “I am
haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain.”
De plus en plus dramatique :
http://guruprasad.net/posts/vulture-and-starving-child/
Horribly disturbing photo.
A vulture waiting for a starving child in Africa to die so that it can
eat it up!!
This was shot by a photojournalist named Kevin Carter in 1993-94 when he
had gone to Sudan on an assignment to report about the famine.
In an interview, Carter said that he had spent 20 mins adjusting the
camera to take the best shot because his profession demanded it, but
deep down it was painful to shoot such a picture. Immediately after
clicking the pic, he fled from the scene since he could not tolerate the
disturbing situation in Sudan where millions of such kids were starving
to death.
Etc...
Un autre son de cloche selon lequel Carter a patiemment construit sa
photo et n'a pas, sur le moment, été particulièrement ému :
https://www.ranker.com/list/vulture-and-little-girl-photo-story/stephanroget
Most people are familiar with this picture from the South Sudan famine,
but not everyone knows that the tragedy portrayed goes far beyond the
picture itself, extending to the photographer, Kevin Carter. The photo
of a starving Sudanese girl struggling while a hungry vulture looks on
patiently needs no added context to have an effect on all but the most
callous of viewers. However, the details of what happened at the time
and after the photograph was taken combine to make it one of the most
striking and complex stories of human suffering in the modern era. It
may have even led to the suicide of the very man who took it.
Kevin Carter took this photo in South Sudan in 1993 when covering the
famine and the international attempts to stop it. When the photo first
appeared in The New York Times, it ignited a firestorm of reaction that
included both condemnations of Carter and huge congratulations, namely
in the form of the Pulitzer Prize. Kevin Carter's suicide not long after
adds another layer of tragedy to this somber and twisted tale.
Carter Claimed That He Chased The Bird Away Right After Taking The Picture
Carter Claimed That He Chased ... is listed (or ranked) 1 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: Kevin Carter/New York Times/Fair Use
The basic details of the photograph are simple. While on the way to a
United Nations feeding center, a young girl had stopped to rest,
exhausted by starvation. As her parents had likely gone ahead to grab
food, the emaciated child lay there, vulnerable, attracting the
attention of a vulture.
Initially, Carter claimed to have come upon the scene, snapped a few
photos, and then chased the bird away. However, this was not the whole
truth – or even the partial truth.
In Reality, He Let The Bird Inch Closer And Closer – So He Could Capture
The Perfect Shot
In Reality, He Let The Bird In... is listed (or ranked) 2 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: YouTube
Later, another photographer present at the time of the picture revealed
that the process was a bit more extended than that. Carter eventually
admitted that he watched the scene for about 20 minutes, waiting for the
vulture to get closer to the girl and hoping that it would spread its
wings for a more dramatic shot. When that didn't happen, Carter finally
got up and chased the bird away.
He did not help the girl, nor is anyone sure what happened to her after
that. Carter noted that, considering the rampant hardship throughout the
country, he did not regard the girl's situation as particularly unique.
Voilà, il se dégage un profil de Kevin Carter beaucoup moins reluisant.

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:15, jdd a écrit :

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:02, GhostRaider a écrit :

Les autres présents disent bien autre chose.

où?

Attention : le texte en français que tu cites figure dans un blog
anonyme de 2017 : monblog75@gmail.com
La source citée : amhed amri (amriahmed.blogspot.com) est un autre blog,
tunisien.
L'article cité, qui est très romancé et qui s'étend abonfdamment sur les
opinions du rédacteur et beaucoup moins sur les faits, date de 2010 :
http://amriahmed.blogspot.com/2010/08/kevin-carter-voyage-au-bout-de-lenfer8.html
Sa source serait un article en français du Huffington-post et là, on
perd sa trace.
Quand on connait le Huffington-post on peut lever les sourcils et aller
vérifier.

La première chose à faire est de consulter Wikipedia, qui cite avec
précisions ses propres sources imprimées (et non web) qu'on peut aller
consulter.

On voit nettement l'évolution du discours au fil du temps qui confirme
les sentiments d'horreur des lecteurs au prix d'un éloignement
progressif de la réalité.

The vulture and the little girl :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_vulture_and_the_little_girl
"The next day their light aircraft touched down in the tiny hamlet of
Ayod with the cargo aircraft landing shortly afterwards. Marinovich
wrote that the villagers were already waiting next to the runway to get
the food as quickly as possible: "Mothers who had joined the throng
waiting for food left their children on the sandy ground nearby."[8]
Silva and Carter separated to take pictures of both children and adults,
both the living and dead, all victims of the catastrophic famine that
had arisen through the war. Carter went several times to Silva to tell
him about the shocking situation he had just photographed. Witnessing
the famine affected him emotionally. Silva was searching for rebel
soldiers who could take him to someone in authority and when he found
some soldiers Carter joined him. The soldiers did not speak English, but
one was interested in Carter's watch. Carter gave him his cheap
wristwatch as a gift.[9] The soldiers became their bodyguards and
followed them for their protection.[10][11]

To stay a week with the rebels they needed the permission of a rebel
commander. Their plane was due to depart in an hour and without the
permission to stay they would be forced to fly out. Again they separated
and Silva went to the clinic complex to ask for the rebel commander and
he was told the commander was in Kongor, South Sudan. This was for Silva
good news as, "their little UN plane was heading there next". He left
the clinic and went back to the runway, taking on his way pictures of
children and people. He came across a child lying on his face in the hot
sun – he took a picture.[12]

Carter saw Silva on the runway and told him, "You won't believe what
I've just shot! … I was shooting this kid on her knees, and then changed
my angle, and suddenly there was this vulture right behind her! … And I
just kept shooting – shot lots of film![12] Silva asked him where he
shot the picture and was looking around to take a photo as well. Carter
pointed to a place 50 m (160 ft) away. Then Carter told him that he had
chased the vulture away. He told Silva he was shocked by the situation
he had just photographed, saying, "I see all this, and all I can think
of is Megan", his young daughter. A few minutes later they left Ayod for
Kongor.[13]

In 2011, the child's father revealed the child was actually a boy, Kong
Nyong, and had been taken care of by the UN food aid station. Nyong had
died four years prior, c. 2007, of "fevers", according to his family.[14]

Plus loin :

Publication and public reaction
In March 1993, The New York Times was seeking an image to illustrate a
story by Donatella Lorch about the Sudan. Nancy Buirski, the newspaper's
picture editor on the foreign desk, called Marinovich, who told her
about "an image of a vulture stalking a starving child who had collapsed
in the sand." Carter's photo was published in the March 26, 1993
edition.[15] The caption read: "A little girl, weakened from hunger,
collapsed recently along the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. Nearby,
a vulture waited.".[2]

This first publication in The New York Times "caused a sensation",
Marinovich wrote, adding, "It was being used in posters for raising
funds for aid organization. Papers and magazines around the world had
published it, and the immediate public reaction was to send money to any
humanitarian organization that had an operation in Sudan."[16]
Special editorial

Due to the public reaction and questions about the girl's condition, The
New York Times published a special editorial in its 30 March 1993
edition, in which the editor said, in part, "A picture last Friday with
an article about the Sudan showed a little Sudanese girl who had
collapsed from hunger on the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. A
vulture lurked behind her. Many readers have asked about the fate of the
girl. The photographer reports that he did not know what happened to the
girl . It is not known whether she reached the center."[17]

Plus loin :

Kevin Carter's suicide
Main article: Kevin Carter § Death
Four months after being awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Feature
Photography, Carter died of suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning on July
27, 1994, at age 33.[19][20] Desmond Tutu, Archbishop Emeritus of Cape
Town, South Africa, wrote of Carter, "And we know a little about the
cost of being traumatized that drove some to suicide, that, yes, these
people were human beings operating under the most demanding of
conditions."[21]

Plus loin dans l'article sur Kevin Carter :

Death
On 27 July 1994, Carter drove to Parkmore near the Field and Study
Centre, an area where he used to play as a child, and committed suicide
by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and
running the other end to the driver's side window. He died of carbon
monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note
read:[16]

I'm really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist. ...depressed ... without phone ... money
for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!!
... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger &
pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often
police, of killer executioners ... I have gone to join Ken if I am that
lucky.

Un autre article :
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/

The vulture and the little girl, 1993. Original title: Struggling Girl.
The vulture is waiting for the girl to die and to eat her. The
photograph was taken by South African photojournalist, Kevin Carter,
while on assignment to Sudan. He took his own life a couple of month
later due to depression.

In March 1993 Kevin Carter made a trip to Sudan. Near the village of
Ayod, Carter found a girl who had stopped to rest while struggling to a
United Nations feeding centre, whereupon a vulture had landed nearby.
Careful not to disturb the bird, he waited for twenty minutes until the
vulture was close enough, positioned himself for the best possible image
and only then chased the vulture away. At this point Carter was probably
not yet aware that he had shot one of the most controversial photographs
in the history of photojournalism.

“The parents of the children were busy taking food from the plane, so
they had left their children only briefly while they collected the food.
This was the situation for the girl in the photo taken by Carter. A
vulture landed behind the girl. To get the two in focus, Carter
approached the scene very slowly so as not to scare the vulture away and
took a photo from approximately 10 meters. He took a few more photos
before chasing the bird away”.

The photograph was sold to The New York Times where it appeared for the
first time on March 26, 1993. Practically overnight hundreds of people
contacted the newspaper to ask whether the child had survived, leading
the newspaper to run a special editor’s note saying the girl had enough
strength to walk away from the vulture, but that her ultimate fate was
unknown. Because of this, Carter was bombarded with questions about why
he did not help the girl, and only used her to take a photograph.

As with many dramatic photographs, Carter came under criticism for this
shot. The St. Petersburg Times in Florida wrote: “The man adjusting his
lens to take just the right frame of her suffering, might just as well
be a predator, another vulture on the scene”. The attitude that public
opinion condemned was not only that of taking the picture instead of
chasing the vulture immediately away, but also the fact that he did not
help the girl afterwards –as Carter explained later- leaving her in such
a weak condition to continue the march by her self towards the feeding
center.

However, Carter was working in a time when photojournalists were told
not to touch famine victims for fear of spreading disease. Carter
estimated that there were twenty people per hour dying at the food
center. The child was not unique. Regardless, Carter often expressed
regret that he had not done anything to help the girl, even though there
was not much that he could have done.

In 1994, Kevin Carter won the Pulitzer prize for the disturbing
photograph of a Sudanese child being stalked by a vulture. That same
year, Kevin Carter committed suicide.

Carter is the tragic example of the toll photographing such suffering
can take on a person. Along with his famous photograph, Carter had
captured such things as a public necklacing execution in 1980s South
Africa, along with the violence of the time, including shootouts and
other executions. Carter spoke of his thoughts when he took these
photographs: “I had to think visually. I am zooming in on a tight shot
of the dead guy and a splash of red. Going into his khaki uniform in a
pool of blood in the sand. The dead man’s face is slightly gray. You are
making a visual here. But inside something is screaming: ‘My God!’. But
it is time to work. Deal with the rest later. If you can’t do it, get
out of the game”.

The suicide: On 27 July 1994 Carter drove his way to Parkmore near the
Field and Study Center, an area where he used to play as a child, and
committed suicide by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s
exhaust pipe and running the other end to the driver’s side window. He
died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Carter’s suicide
note read:

“I’m really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist… I am depressed… without phone… money for
rent … money for child support… money for debts… money!!!… I am haunted
by the vivid memories of killings and corpses and anger and pain… of
starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of
killer executioners… I have gone to join Ken [recently deceased
colleague Ken Oosterbroek] if I am that lucky”.

Un autre lien qui romance de plus en plus en ajoutant des détails nouveaux :
http://100photos.time.com/photos/kevin-carter-starving-child-vulture
Kevin Carter knew the stench of death. As a member of the Bang-Bang
Club, a quartet of brave photographers who chronicled apartheid-era
South Africa, he had seen more than his share of heartbreak. In 1993 he
flew to Sudan to photograph the famine racking that land. Exhausted
after a day of taking pictures in the village of Ayod, he headed out
into the open bush. There he heard whimpering and came across an
emaciated toddler who had collapsed on the way to a feeding center. As
he took the child’s picture, a plump vulture landed nearby. Carter had
reportedly been advised not to touch the victims because of disease, so
instead of helping, he spent 20 minutes waiting in the hope that the
stalking bird would open its wings. It did not. Carter scared the
creature away and watched as the child continued toward the center. He
then lit a cigarette, talked to God and wept. The New York Times ran the
photo, and readers were eager to find out what happened to the child—and
to criticize Carter for not coming to his subject’s aid. His image
quickly became a wrenching case study in the debate over when
photographers should intervene. Subsequent research seemed to reveal
that the child did survive yet died 14 years later from malarial fever.
Carter won a Pulitzer for his image, but the darkness of that bright day
never lifted from him. In July 1994 he took his own life, writing, “I am
haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain.”

De plus en plus dramatique :
http://guruprasad.net/posts/vulture-and-starving-child/

Horribly disturbing photo.
A vulture waiting for a starving child in Africa to die so that it can
eat it up!!
This was shot by a photojournalist named Kevin Carter in 1993-94 when he
had gone to Sudan on an assignment to report about the famine.

In an interview, Carter said that he had spent 20 mins adjusting the
camera to take the best shot because his profession demanded it, but
deep down it was painful to shoot such a picture. Immediately after
clicking the pic, he fled from the scene since he could not tolerate the
disturbing situation in Sudan where millions of such kids were starving
to death.

Etc...

Un autre son de cloche selon lequel Carter a patiemment construit sa
photo et n'a pas, sur le moment, été particulièrement ému :
https://www.ranker.com/list/vulture-and-little-girl-photo-story/stephanroget

Most people are familiar with this picture from the South Sudan famine,
but not everyone knows that the tragedy portrayed goes far beyond the
picture itself, extending to the photographer, Kevin Carter. The photo
of a starving Sudanese girl struggling while a hungry vulture looks on
patiently needs no added context to have an effect on all but the most
callous of viewers. However, the details of what happened at the time
and after the photograph was taken combine to make it one of the most
striking and complex stories of human suffering in the modern era. It
may have even led to the suicide of the very man who took it.

Kevin Carter took this photo in South Sudan in 1993 when covering the
famine and the international attempts to stop it. When the photo first
appeared in The New York Times, it ignited a firestorm of reaction that
included both condemnations of Carter and huge congratulations, namely
in the form of the Pulitzer Prize. Kevin Carter's suicide not long after
adds another layer of tragedy to this somber and twisted tale.

Carter Claimed That He Chased The Bird Away Right After Taking The Picture

Carter Claimed That He Chased ... is listed (or ranked) 1 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: Kevin Carter/New York Times/Fair Use

The basic details of the photograph are simple. While on the way to a
United Nations feeding center, a young girl had stopped to rest,
exhausted by starvation. As her parents had likely gone ahead to grab
food, the emaciated child lay there, vulnerable, attracting the
attention of a vulture.

Initially, Carter claimed to have come upon the scene, snapped a few
photos, and then chased the bird away. However, this was not the whole
truth – or even the partial truth.

In Reality, He Let The Bird Inch Closer And Closer – So He Could Capture
The Perfect Shot

In Reality, He Let The Bird In... is listed (or ranked) 2 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: YouTube

Later, another photographer present at the time of the picture revealed
that the process was a bit more extended than that. Carter eventually
admitted that he watched the scene for about 20 minutes, waiting for the
vulture to get closer to the girl and hoping that it would spread its
wings for a more dramatic shot. When that didn't happen, Carter finally
got up and chased the bird away.

He did not help the girl, nor is anyone sure what happened to her after
that. Carter noted that, considering the rampant hardship throughout the
country, he did not regard the girl's situation as particularly unique.

Voilà, il se dégage un profil de Kevin Carter beaucoup moins reluisant.

Vous avez filtré cet utilisateur ! Consultez son message

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:15, jdd a écrit :

Le 26/10/2018 à 13:02, GhostRaider a écrit :
Les autres présents disent bien autre chose.

où?

Attention : le texte en français que tu cites figure dans un blog
anonyme de 2017 :
La source citée : amhed amri (amriahmed.blogspot.com) est un autre blog,
tunisien.
L'article cité, qui est très romancé et qui s'étend abonfdamment sur les
opinions du rédacteur et beaucoup moins sur les faits, date de 2010 :
http://amriahmed.blogspot.com/2010/08/kevin-carter-voyage-au-bout-de-lenfer8.html
Sa source serait un article en français du Huffington-post et là, on
perd sa trace.
Quand on connait le Huffington-post on peut lever les sourcils et aller
vérifier.
La première chose à faire est de consulter Wikipedia, qui cite avec
précisions ses propres sources imprimées (et non web) qu'on peut aller
consulter.
On voit nettement l'évolution du discours au fil du temps qui confirme
les sentiments d'horreur des lecteurs au prix d'un éloignement
progressif de la réalité.
The vulture and the little girl :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_vulture_and_the_little_girl
"The next day their light aircraft touched down in the tiny hamlet of
Ayod with the cargo aircraft landing shortly afterwards. Marinovich
wrote that the villagers were already waiting next to the runway to get
the food as quickly as possible: "Mothers who had joined the throng
waiting for food left their children on the sandy ground nearby."[8]
Silva and Carter separated to take pictures of both children and adults,
both the living and dead, all victims of the catastrophic famine that
had arisen through the war. Carter went several times to Silva to tell
him about the shocking situation he had just photographed. Witnessing
the famine affected him emotionally. Silva was searching for rebel
soldiers who could take him to someone in authority and when he found
some soldiers Carter joined him. The soldiers did not speak English, but
one was interested in Carter's watch. Carter gave him his cheap
wristwatch as a gift.[9] The soldiers became their bodyguards and
followed them for their protection.[10][11]
To stay a week with the rebels they needed the permission of a rebel
commander. Their plane was due to depart in an hour and without the
permission to stay they would be forced to fly out. Again they separated
and Silva went to the clinic complex to ask for the rebel commander and
he was told the commander was in Kongor, South Sudan. This was for Silva
good news as, "their little UN plane was heading there next". He left
the clinic and went back to the runway, taking on his way pictures of
children and people. He came across a child lying on his face in the hot
sun – he took a picture.[12]
Carter saw Silva on the runway and told him, "You won't believe what
I've just shot! … I was shooting this kid on her knees, and then changed
my angle, and suddenly there was this vulture right behind her! … And I
just kept shooting – shot lots of film![12] Silva asked him where he
shot the picture and was looking around to take a photo as well. Carter
pointed to a place 50 m (160 ft) away. Then Carter told him that he had
chased the vulture away. He told Silva he was shocked by the situation
he had just photographed, saying, "I see all this, and all I can think
of is Megan", his young daughter. A few minutes later they left Ayod for
Kongor.[13]
In 2011, the child's father revealed the child was actually a boy, Kong
Nyong, and had been taken care of by the UN food aid station. Nyong had
died four years prior, c. 2007, of "fevers", according to his family.[14]
Plus loin :
Publication and public reaction
In March 1993, The New York Times was seeking an image to illustrate a
story by Donatella Lorch about the Sudan. Nancy Buirski, the newspaper's
picture editor on the foreign desk, called Marinovich, who told her
about "an image of a vulture stalking a starving child who had collapsed
in the sand." Carter's photo was published in the March 26, 1993
edition.[15] The caption read: "A little girl, weakened from hunger,
collapsed recently along the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. Nearby,
a vulture waited.".[2]
This first publication in The New York Times "caused a sensation",
Marinovich wrote, adding, "It was being used in posters for raising
funds for aid organization. Papers and magazines around the world had
published it, and the immediate public reaction was to send money to any
humanitarian organization that had an operation in Sudan."[16]
Special editorial
Due to the public reaction and questions about the girl's condition, The
New York Times published a special editorial in its 30 March 1993
edition, in which the editor said, in part, "A picture last Friday with
an article about the Sudan showed a little Sudanese girl who had
collapsed from hunger on the trail to a feeding center in Ayod. A
vulture lurked behind her. Many readers have asked about the fate of the
girl. The photographer reports that he did not know what happened to the
girl . It is not known whether she reached the center."[17]
Plus loin :
Kevin Carter's suicide
Main article: Kevin Carter § Death
Four months after being awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Feature
Photography, Carter died of suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning on July
27, 1994, at age 33.[19][20] Desmond Tutu, Archbishop Emeritus of Cape
Town, South Africa, wrote of Carter, "And we know a little about the
cost of being traumatized that drove some to suicide, that, yes, these
people were human beings operating under the most demanding of
conditions."[21]
Plus loin dans l'article sur Kevin Carter :
Death
On 27 July 1994, Carter drove to Parkmore near the Field and Study
Centre, an area where he used to play as a child, and committed suicide
by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and
running the other end to the driver's side window. He died of carbon
monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note
read:[16]
I'm really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist. ...depressed ... without phone ... money
for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!!
... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger &
pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often
police, of killer executioners ... I have gone to join Ken if I am that
lucky.
Un autre article :
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/
The vulture and the little girl, 1993. Original title: Struggling Girl.
The vulture is waiting for the girl to die and to eat her. The
photograph was taken by South African photojournalist, Kevin Carter,
while on assignment to Sudan. He took his own life a couple of month
later due to depression.
In March 1993 Kevin Carter made a trip to Sudan. Near the village of
Ayod, Carter found a girl who had stopped to rest while struggling to a
United Nations feeding centre, whereupon a vulture had landed nearby.
Careful not to disturb the bird, he waited for twenty minutes until the
vulture was close enough, positioned himself for the best possible image
and only then chased the vulture away. At this point Carter was probably
not yet aware that he had shot one of the most controversial photographs
in the history of photojournalism.
“The parents of the children were busy taking food from the plane, so
they had left their children only briefly while they collected the food.
This was the situation for the girl in the photo taken by Carter. A
vulture landed behind the girl. To get the two in focus, Carter
approached the scene very slowly so as not to scare the vulture away and
took a photo from approximately 10 meters. He took a few more photos
before chasing the bird away”.
The photograph was sold to The New York Times where it appeared for the
first time on March 26, 1993. Practically overnight hundreds of people
contacted the newspaper to ask whether the child had survived, leading
the newspaper to run a special editor’s note saying the girl had enough
strength to walk away from the vulture, but that her ultimate fate was
unknown. Because of this, Carter was bombarded with questions about why
he did not help the girl, and only used her to take a photograph.
As with many dramatic photographs, Carter came under criticism for this
shot. The St. Petersburg Times in Florida wrote: “The man adjusting his
lens to take just the right frame of her suffering, might just as well
be a predator, another vulture on the scene”. The attitude that public
opinion condemned was not only that of taking the picture instead of
chasing the vulture immediately away, but also the fact that he did not
help the girl afterwards –as Carter explained later- leaving her in such
a weak condition to continue the march by her self towards the feeding
center.
However, Carter was working in a time when photojournalists were told
not to touch famine victims for fear of spreading disease. Carter
estimated that there were twenty people per hour dying at the food
center. The child was not unique. Regardless, Carter often expressed
regret that he had not done anything to help the girl, even though there
was not much that he could have done.
In 1994, Kevin Carter won the Pulitzer prize for the disturbing
photograph of a Sudanese child being stalked by a vulture. That same
year, Kevin Carter committed suicide.
Carter is the tragic example of the toll photographing such suffering
can take on a person. Along with his famous photograph, Carter had
captured such things as a public necklacing execution in 1980s South
Africa, along with the violence of the time, including shootouts and
other executions. Carter spoke of his thoughts when he took these
photographs: “I had to think visually. I am zooming in on a tight shot
of the dead guy and a splash of red. Going into his khaki uniform in a
pool of blood in the sand. The dead man’s face is slightly gray. You are
making a visual here. But inside something is screaming: ‘My God!’. But
it is time to work. Deal with the rest later. If you can’t do it, get
out of the game”.
The suicide: On 27 July 1994 Carter drove his way to Parkmore near the
Field and Study Center, an area where he used to play as a child, and
committed suicide by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s
exhaust pipe and running the other end to the driver’s side window. He
died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Carter’s suicide
note read:
“I’m really, really sorry. The pain of life overrides the joy to the
point that joy does not exist… I am depressed… without phone… money for
rent … money for child support… money for debts… money!!!… I am haunted
by the vivid memories of killings and corpses and anger and pain… of
starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of
killer executioners… I have gone to join Ken [recently deceased
colleague Ken Oosterbroek] if I am that lucky”.
Un autre lien qui romance de plus en plus en ajoutant des détails nouveaux :
http://100photos.time.com/photos/kevin-carter-starving-child-vulture
Kevin Carter knew the stench of death. As a member of the Bang-Bang
Club, a quartet of brave photographers who chronicled apartheid-era
South Africa, he had seen more than his share of heartbreak. In 1993 he
flew to Sudan to photograph the famine racking that land. Exhausted
after a day of taking pictures in the village of Ayod, he headed out
into the open bush. There he heard whimpering and came across an
emaciated toddler who had collapsed on the way to a feeding center. As
he took the child’s picture, a plump vulture landed nearby. Carter had
reportedly been advised not to touch the victims because of disease, so
instead of helping, he spent 20 minutes waiting in the hope that the
stalking bird would open its wings. It did not. Carter scared the
creature away and watched as the child continued toward the center. He
then lit a cigarette, talked to God and wept. The New York Times ran the
photo, and readers were eager to find out what happened to the child—and
to criticize Carter for not coming to his subject’s aid. His image
quickly became a wrenching case study in the debate over when
photographers should intervene. Subsequent research seemed to reveal
that the child did survive yet died 14 years later from malarial fever.
Carter won a Pulitzer for his image, but the darkness of that bright day
never lifted from him. In July 1994 he took his own life, writing, “I am
haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain.”
De plus en plus dramatique :
http://guruprasad.net/posts/vulture-and-starving-child/
Horribly disturbing photo.
A vulture waiting for a starving child in Africa to die so that it can
eat it up!!
This was shot by a photojournalist named Kevin Carter in 1993-94 when he
had gone to Sudan on an assignment to report about the famine.
In an interview, Carter said that he had spent 20 mins adjusting the
camera to take the best shot because his profession demanded it, but
deep down it was painful to shoot such a picture. Immediately after
clicking the pic, he fled from the scene since he could not tolerate the
disturbing situation in Sudan where millions of such kids were starving
to death.
Etc...
Un autre son de cloche selon lequel Carter a patiemment construit sa
photo et n'a pas, sur le moment, été particulièrement ému :
https://www.ranker.com/list/vulture-and-little-girl-photo-story/stephanroget
Most people are familiar with this picture from the South Sudan famine,
but not everyone knows that the tragedy portrayed goes far beyond the
picture itself, extending to the photographer, Kevin Carter. The photo
of a starving Sudanese girl struggling while a hungry vulture looks on
patiently needs no added context to have an effect on all but the most
callous of viewers. However, the details of what happened at the time
and after the photograph was taken combine to make it one of the most
striking and complex stories of human suffering in the modern era. It
may have even led to the suicide of the very man who took it.
Kevin Carter took this photo in South Sudan in 1993 when covering the
famine and the international attempts to stop it. When the photo first
appeared in The New York Times, it ignited a firestorm of reaction that
included both condemnations of Carter and huge congratulations, namely
in the form of the Pulitzer Prize. Kevin Carter's suicide not long after
adds another layer of tragedy to this somber and twisted tale.
Carter Claimed That He Chased The Bird Away Right After Taking The Picture
Carter Claimed That He Chased ... is listed (or ranked) 1 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: Kevin Carter/New York Times/Fair Use
The basic details of the photograph are simple. While on the way to a
United Nations feeding center, a young girl had stopped to rest,
exhausted by starvation. As her parents had likely gone ahead to grab
food, the emaciated child lay there, vulnerable, attracting the
attention of a vulture.
Initially, Carter claimed to have come upon the scene, snapped a few
photos, and then chased the bird away. However, this was not the whole
truth – or even the partial truth.
In Reality, He Let The Bird Inch Closer And Closer – So He Could Capture
The Perfect Shot
In Reality, He Let The Bird In... is listed (or ranked) 2 on the list
The Pulitzer Prize-Winning Photo So Emotionally Devastating It Drove The
Photographer To Suicide
Photo: YouTube
Later, another photographer present at the time of the picture revealed
that the process was a bit more extended than that. Carter eventually
admitted that he watched the scene for about 20 minutes, waiting for the
vulture to get closer to the girl and hoping that it would spread its
wings for a more dramatic shot. When that didn't happen, Carter finally
got up and chased the bird away.
He did not help the girl, nor is anyone sure what happened to her after
that. Carter noted that, considering the rampant hardship throughout the
country, he did not regard the girl's situation as particularly unique.
Voilà, il se dégage un profil de Kevin Carter beaucoup moins reluisant.

GhostRaider

26/10/2018 à 17:20

Le 26/10/2018 à 14:07, Alf92 a écrit :

GhostRaider :
Le 26/10/2018 à 10:44, Alf92 a écrit :
GhostRaider :

Il s'agit d'un *faux intellectuel* et Carter, qui était *aux abois* , sans
argent, endetté (il avait même emprunté l'argent du voyage) et drogué, *a*
*dû souffrir* de recueillir un prix et une *célébrité qu'il savait immérités* .

comment fais-tu pour préter autant de pensées aux gens ?

C'est raconté par les autres présents.

oui je connaissais l'histoire avant de proposer l'image.
mais là ça fait vraiment l'homme qui a vu l'homme qui a vu l'homme qui a vu l'ours :-)

Absolument.
Dans mon message de 17h16 je remonte un peu l'histoire et les articles.
De proche en proche, ils en rajoutent dans le pathos et le rôle de
Carter est plutôt ambigu.

GhostRaider

26/10/2018 à 17:28

Le 26/10/2018 à 14:03, Alf92 a écrit :

Benoit :
Alf92 wrote:
Benoit :

Mes cours d'anatomie avaient lieu dans une salle de dissection avec
quelques dizaines de tables de dissection et des macchabées plus ou
moins ouverts par les étudiants de deuxième année. Ça a fait des dégâts
auprès de ceux qui ne s'y attendaient pas malgré l'odeur de formol à
l'étage.

cette salle immense et glaciale avec tous ces cadavres à moitié ouvert
à 30cm des étudiants était vraiment flipante
toi aussi tu as fait une année de PCEM1 rue des Saint-Pères ??? ;-)

Oui, mais deux fois.

j'ai été moins con que toi alors :-))
Ou tout du moins 1 fois et demi, j'ai arrêté à la
fin du premier semestre parce que je ne me voyais pas faire autant
d'années d'étude pour devenir micro-chirurgien.

je n'ai fait q'une année, enfin 6 mois.
les 6 mois restant je suis parti en WW Combi en Europe faire de la
planche à voile. la vraie vie quoi.

Et avec quel argent ?

GhostRaider

26/10/2018 à 17:29

Le 26/10/2018 à 15:04, Benoit a écrit :

Alf92 wrote:
Benoit :
Alf92 wrote:
Benoit :

Mes cours d'anatomie avaient lieu dans une salle de dissection avec
quelques dizaines de tables de dissection et des macchabées plus ou
moins ouverts par les étudiants de deuxième année. Ça a fait des dégâts
auprès de ceux qui ne s'y attendaient pas malgré l'odeur de formol à
l'étage.

cette salle immense et glaciale avec tous ces cadavres à moitié ouvert
à 30cm des étudiants était vraiment flipante

P'tit bras l'Alf.
toi aussi tu as fait une année de PCEM1 rue des Saint-Pères ??? ;-)

Oui, mais deux fois.

j'ai été moins con que toi alors :-))

T'as rattrapé ton retard de l'époque, et l'avance que tu as prise n'as
pas duré longtemps.
Et Hop !
Ou tout du moins 1 fois et demi, j'ai arrêté à la
fin du premier semestre parce que je ne me voyais pas faire autant
d'années d'étude pour devenir micro-chirurgien.

je n'ai fait q'une année, enfin 6 mois.
les 6 mois restant je suis parti en WW Combi en Europe faire de la
planche à voile. la vraie vie quoi.

Moi la vraie vie à Paris : se balader, jouer au flipper et vendre les
parties claquées pour acheter à manger, visiter des musées, aller dans
dans les cinés du quatier latin (entre autre) pour voir des vieux films,
regarder la rue, la vie.
J'ai plus appris sur la vie, l'économie, l'art... que sur les bancs.

Ça y est, le TOC le reprend.

jdd

26/10/2018 à 17:58

Le 26/10/2018 à 17:16, GhostRaider a écrit :

L'article cité, qui est très romancé et qui s'étend abonfdamment sur les
opinions du rédacteur et beaucoup moins sur les faits, date de 2010 :
http://amriahmed.blogspot.com/2010/08/kevin-carter-voyage-au-bout-de-lenfer8.html
Sa source serait un article en français du Huffington-post et là, on
perd sa trace.
Quand on connait le Huffington-post on peut lever les sourcils et aller
vérifier.

j'ai beaucoup d'estime pour le Huff

La première chose à faire est de consulter Wikipedia, qui cite avec
précisions ses propres sources imprimées (et non web) qu'on peut aller
consulter.
On voit nettement l'évolution du discours au fil du temps qui confirme
les sentiments d'horreur des lecteurs au prix d'un éloignement
progressif de la réalité.

je peux aller sur wikipedia moi-même quand j'ai du temps à perdre, mais
tout ce que je viens de lire ne fait que confirmer l'article que j'ai publié
de pus, je ne prétendais pas que cet article était une relation complète
des faits, en fait c'est surtout une oeuvre poétique...
et tu ne m'as rien donné qui confirme tes affirmations
jdd
--
http://dodin.org

benoit

26/10/2018 à 17:59

GhostRaider wrote:

Ça y est, le TOC le reprend.

Que veux-tu, c'est un tic.
Toc !
--
Vie : n.f. maladie mortelle sexuellement transmissible
Benoit chez lui à leraillez.com

jdd

26/10/2018 à 17:59

Le 26/10/2018 à 17:20, GhostRaider a écrit :

Dans mon message de 17h16 je remonte un peu l'histoire et les articles.
De proche en proche, ils en rajoutent dans le pathos et le rôle de
Carter est plutôt ambigu.

d'où la nécessité de rester sur les premiers témoignages
jdd
--
http://dodin.org

jdd

26/10/2018 à 18:02

Le 26/10/2018 à 17:59, Benoit a écrit :

GhostRaider wrote:
Ça y est, le TOC le reprend.

Que veux-tu, c'est un tic.
Toc !

ah non!!
Tac :-)
jdd
--
http://dodin.org

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